Of Norms and Prejudices
Do we inherit some of our norms and prejudices, without realizing it? Even when they have no proper justification?
This thought passed my mind recently, when I was in a Sunday karaoke session, with a close friend, a 32-year old girl and her 59-year old boyfriend.
Don't get me wrong - The Oldie was a specialist doctor, a nice guy and single and The Girl is well, unorthodox, but definitely, one of the most expressive and genuine people I've ever met. With her, what you see is what you get - she has no pretensions.
But subconsciously, I found myself being uncomfortable with their mutual smooching and open display of affection, in the karaoke room.
And it struck me that it wasn't actually the conduct that bothered me (I know a lot of couples, who are generally affectionate in public, some married, most not and I find it sweet) but subconsciously, it was because The Oldie was a Malay elder and there was huge age gap in between them.
And that's not fair. It's discrimination. It's prejudice. And worse, it's subconscious.
Do we sometimes, impose different standards on the old and the young, without realizing it? Do we expect our elders to act their age? And if so, what does acting their age mean?
**********************************************************************************
For the past few days, I've passed some questions around, just to double-check whether it's just something that I felt or whether, there's a general consensus to this double standard treatment of old people.
And I found out that it wasn't just me. It is an unspoken assumption, but one that was there, in all my friends. Some are evidently more prejudiced than me, on a subconscious level.
I breathed a sigh of relief (that if I was prejudiced, I was not alone) but yet, there was this nagging feeling at the back of my head - that even though there was a consensus of some sort - that it's neither justifiable or fair.
I'll give you some of the opinions cited in the last few days to me, by friends (who shall remain anonymous). If you fall under these brackets, you may be a victim of prejudice against old people and of them consorting with young female companions:
1) The reason why we are expected to give respect and deference to our elders, is because they are supposed to embody all the upright qualities that one would expect, in society. All old people should act in a proper way - otherwise, the "social contract" for the respect and deference by the young, is lost;
2) There is a difference in reaction between age groups with the same age gap. If a 25-year old girl was dating a 45-year old man, the natural (unspoken) assumption is that she's a gold digger and he's an "orang tua gatal tak sedar diri".
But if a 40-year old girl dates a 60-year old man,...well, good for her, because at that age, if she doesn't marry anyone, she'll probably never be married.
3) Young girls should not marry golden-agers because their residual life expectancy, is shorter. And they may be left widowed in a few years, with children to boot.
(Of course, forget the fact that large numbers of cancer or heart disease sufferers in this country, are below the age of 40 and more likely to die, due to high stress lifestyles)
However, some girls have mentioned that if the 60-something man looks like our Home Minister, Datuk Azmi Khalid,...then it's okay, because he's physically fit (reputedly swims 15 laps daily) and good-looking. And financially and status-wise, he's an absolute catch.
I see. So the problem is, if you're old AND ugly, and not rich...otherwise, no problem.
Alamak!
(Some of the girls also mentioned that if you want to smooch in public with a younger loved one, you better look AT LEAST, like Azmi Khalid. Kalau tidak, buruk mata memandang. So remember - if you must misbehave - please be good looking!)
4) The concept of son-in-law, implies that your daughter will be marrying someone that could be your child's age. Not your PEER or your SENIOR, in school.
Because having a son-in-law is figuratively adding a "son" to your family. But if she marries a golden-ager, you get a "brother" instead, albeit maybe an older one at that.
And it's embarrassing to have a son-in-law that's your age or older. Plus, he might die, before you -leaving your daughter single and alone again.
5) If you happen to marry your friend's daughter, it is a breach of trust and of a privileged position.
Because there is an implicit assumption that when you're a friend, my daughter is off-limits to you - regardless, of how pure the feelings or how chaste the relationship, may be.
However, if my daughter is a 30-something divorcee and with children, then it's okay, because you're saving her from a life of single mumhood. Or a 40-something spinster. Or just plain ugly.
So, the issue here, is (assumed) virginity (when the girl has never married) and looks (whether she's got any).
6) When parents advice their daughter on whom to marry, some of the usual criteria is: he's a good man and can lead you in a religious perspective, he's financially stable (or preferably, wealthy), he comes from a good and reputable family, he's easy on the eyes (preferably) and he's mature and he treats you and your family well.
And it's a bonus, if you're in love with him. Or those things could grow after marriage, so they assume.
But if all these qualities could be provided by a fighting fit 60-year old suitor to a 20-something girl, why do we still frown on it? And we prefer a younger man, that can fall short of the expected qualities?
7) Golden-agers should not hold hands with 20-somethings or early 30-somethings. But if they want to hold hands with someone their own age, that's okay.
(I see. So, it's not their age or the conduct, that you frown upon. It's the fact that they're creeping into your chick market).
************************************************************************************
So, are you prejudiced, you think?
As for me, I hope I'm NOT single by the time I'm 60, because this society, is hard on old people. Otherwise, I better be like Azmi Khalid, at that age.
Heh!
This thought passed my mind recently, when I was in a Sunday karaoke session, with a close friend, a 32-year old girl and her 59-year old boyfriend.
Don't get me wrong - The Oldie was a specialist doctor, a nice guy and single and The Girl is well, unorthodox, but definitely, one of the most expressive and genuine people I've ever met. With her, what you see is what you get - she has no pretensions.
But subconsciously, I found myself being uncomfortable with their mutual smooching and open display of affection, in the karaoke room.
And it struck me that it wasn't actually the conduct that bothered me (I know a lot of couples, who are generally affectionate in public, some married, most not and I find it sweet) but subconsciously, it was because The Oldie was a Malay elder and there was huge age gap in between them.
And that's not fair. It's discrimination. It's prejudice. And worse, it's subconscious.
Do we sometimes, impose different standards on the old and the young, without realizing it? Do we expect our elders to act their age? And if so, what does acting their age mean?
**********************************************************************************
For the past few days, I've passed some questions around, just to double-check whether it's just something that I felt or whether, there's a general consensus to this double standard treatment of old people.
And I found out that it wasn't just me. It is an unspoken assumption, but one that was there, in all my friends. Some are evidently more prejudiced than me, on a subconscious level.
I breathed a sigh of relief (that if I was prejudiced, I was not alone) but yet, there was this nagging feeling at the back of my head - that even though there was a consensus of some sort - that it's neither justifiable or fair.
I'll give you some of the opinions cited in the last few days to me, by friends (who shall remain anonymous). If you fall under these brackets, you may be a victim of prejudice against old people and of them consorting with young female companions:
1) The reason why we are expected to give respect and deference to our elders, is because they are supposed to embody all the upright qualities that one would expect, in society. All old people should act in a proper way - otherwise, the "social contract" for the respect and deference by the young, is lost;
2) There is a difference in reaction between age groups with the same age gap. If a 25-year old girl was dating a 45-year old man, the natural (unspoken) assumption is that she's a gold digger and he's an "orang tua gatal tak sedar diri".
But if a 40-year old girl dates a 60-year old man,...well, good for her, because at that age, if she doesn't marry anyone, she'll probably never be married.
3) Young girls should not marry golden-agers because their residual life expectancy, is shorter. And they may be left widowed in a few years, with children to boot.
(Of course, forget the fact that large numbers of cancer or heart disease sufferers in this country, are below the age of 40 and more likely to die, due to high stress lifestyles)
However, some girls have mentioned that if the 60-something man looks like our Home Minister, Datuk Azmi Khalid,...then it's okay, because he's physically fit (reputedly swims 15 laps daily) and good-looking. And financially and status-wise, he's an absolute catch.
I see. So the problem is, if you're old AND ugly, and not rich...otherwise, no problem.
Alamak!
(Some of the girls also mentioned that if you want to smooch in public with a younger loved one, you better look AT LEAST, like Azmi Khalid. Kalau tidak, buruk mata memandang. So remember - if you must misbehave - please be good looking!)
4) The concept of son-in-law, implies that your daughter will be marrying someone that could be your child's age. Not your PEER or your SENIOR, in school.
Because having a son-in-law is figuratively adding a "son" to your family. But if she marries a golden-ager, you get a "brother" instead, albeit maybe an older one at that.
And it's embarrassing to have a son-in-law that's your age or older. Plus, he might die, before you -leaving your daughter single and alone again.
5) If you happen to marry your friend's daughter, it is a breach of trust and of a privileged position.
Because there is an implicit assumption that when you're a friend, my daughter is off-limits to you - regardless, of how pure the feelings or how chaste the relationship, may be.
However, if my daughter is a 30-something divorcee and with children, then it's okay, because you're saving her from a life of single mumhood. Or a 40-something spinster. Or just plain ugly.
So, the issue here, is (assumed) virginity (when the girl has never married) and looks (whether she's got any).
6) When parents advice their daughter on whom to marry, some of the usual criteria is: he's a good man and can lead you in a religious perspective, he's financially stable (or preferably, wealthy), he comes from a good and reputable family, he's easy on the eyes (preferably) and he's mature and he treats you and your family well.
And it's a bonus, if you're in love with him. Or those things could grow after marriage, so they assume.
But if all these qualities could be provided by a fighting fit 60-year old suitor to a 20-something girl, why do we still frown on it? And we prefer a younger man, that can fall short of the expected qualities?
7) Golden-agers should not hold hands with 20-somethings or early 30-somethings. But if they want to hold hands with someone their own age, that's okay.
(I see. So, it's not their age or the conduct, that you frown upon. It's the fact that they're creeping into your chick market).
************************************************************************************
So, are you prejudiced, you think?
As for me, I hope I'm NOT single by the time I'm 60, because this society, is hard on old people. Otherwise, I better be like Azmi Khalid, at that age.
Heh!
25 Comments:
you are no azmi khalid, therefore we'll try make sure you're already married before you turn 60 ok? :P
yes i am. very! heh heh!
Ylanda:
You sending the rombongan meminang? ;)
Pseudonymous:
Naaaah. Doesn't work. Girls only want me for dessert, never the main course. ;)
Milah:
Confession is good the soul, they say. :)
besok jugak saya sampai :P
Ylanda:
Ye ke? Jangan suara aje berjanji, orang tak mendatang. ;)
tuan punya badan kena pergi kerja besok, jadi sampaikan suara saja lah masuk meminang.
boleh kan?
Ylanda:
Mana cukup suara saja, sayang oii.
Kalau tuan punya badan yang berhajat besar, tolong hantar badannya sekali. ;)
Thinktankgal:
Yes, you missed it on Sunday! It would have been lovely to get your input, on this topic. :)
Do you have experience in dating older men, TTG? ;)
sungguh besar sekali permintaan tuan.
kalau begitu kata putusnya, cancel kan sajalah niat asalnya.
Permintaan saya besar, tapi pemberian saya pun besar. :)
Bak kata pepatah: "Kalau tak dipecah ruyungnya, manakan dapat sagunya".
Tapi apakan daya, tuan punya badan dah berubah fikiran dan bertukar hajat - nampaknya hujan di tengahari lah, kita ya? ;)
Nampaknya, suara hanya tinggal suara. :)
errrr....
baiklah?
tuan puteri ylanda - pergilah mencuba nasib, sultan stingray ini bukan calang-calang tangkapan. hehe.
this town is raised and based on cliches.
that said, it's eeyew to have an OLD sod after a young woman. i don't know, gives me the shudders.
So that means our daughter's safe from your clutches. Phew.
I have faith u won't need to do an AK stunt. ;)
- Datin P
Puteri Voice:
Apakan daya, Puteri Voice, nampaknya Puteri Ylanda ni dari Gunung Ledang VOIP. Tak tercapailah hajat beta. ;)
Dinz:
Yes, most of us shudder at the thought. Question is: WHY?
Datin P:
Actually, after seeing you, Dato' and Dato's female relatives at Dato's open house the other day - I'm even more keen to tackle your daughter, if I'm still single at 60. ;)
Sooo,...do I call you guys Mummy and Daddy? ;)
(p.s. Are you throwing up yet? Hehehe)
Do
Hey, i wouldnt mind if the guy's close to 60 and looks like azmi khalid... ;-)
However, society does look at me funny when i went "dating" with my dad temaning him to kenduris.. they thought I was his "girlfriend".. hahahahahah and the makciks wouldnt even wanna talk to me until i was introduced by my daddy "this is my DAUGHTER, syira (bukan nama sebenar)"... hahahaha
Pink-fins:
That's why I asked you to tackle your Daddy's friends! Sure ada yang macam Azmi Khalid punya! ;)
Thinktankgal:
I think you should go for the toy boy option and then, find a villa in Tuscany. If you can afford it, why not? ;)
it's iffy because it's like doing it/dating your DAD. i don't know how those young girls do it. their 5 senses must be blocked or something.
Dinzie:
Freud would not disagree with you. Girls who look up to their fathers, tend to marry men, who are like their fathers, in characteristics.
(And vice versa, with women and their fathers)
In this case, these guys may look like their fathers, too.
But I think love and/or a sense of security, would block all 5 senses. Most women are practical creatures.
Actually, I'm not surprised, about the young chickies dating the geriatrics.
What old men may lack in youthful vigour and looks, they make up for in pampering, understanding, sense of security and experience.
And hear them talk about blood pressure, sugar intake, diabetes, which pucuk to rebus and minum for this illness and that illness?? I already have my dad to talk that with.. hahahahah
but hmmmm.... endless shopping tu macam best jugak kan..? new zara suit every week.. ouhhh lovely!!
Dear Pink Fins,
If u be my second wife, I will give you MORE than just Zara. So, how's it going to be? ;)
it's called prejudice ke? usually prejudice is when you have BAD expectations of someone, but in this case, you're expecting them to be on GOOD behaviour and when they don't, it kinda leaves a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach.
lagipun.. kulit berkedutkedut nie... arghhhhhhh... buruk k! (yes, that's prejudice since i kinda picture them like reptile skin, soft and lembab and a little bit leathery.. yuck!!)
Dear Azmi K,
Second? Tak main la second.. I wanna be the first.. hahahahahah
;-)
dear pink-fins,
bagi betis, nak peha. macam ni lah generasi perempuan melayu muda-mudi sekarang. tsk tsk tsk!
tapi if u happen to change your mind one fine day, sila call abang ye?
yang merinduimu,
abang azmi k.
Pink-Fins:
Weekly Zara suits sounds good. :) But if you want to be first wife to oldie, must look amongst the golden-agers lah. :)
Hmmm,....maybe MBA class will have one? ;)
"Abang" Azmi K.:
You sound like someone I know. Now cut that out, will ya! ;)
Lauryn:
Yeah, but the thing is: it's prejudice when we don't mind the young doing something wrong (or sometimes, right) and we go all anal and disgusted, when an old person does the same.
Why do we discriminate?
If age is a state of mind, then it must have nothing to do, with how physically old you are. Just one's level of maturity.
ikan pari...
u asked the question 'why'... my take is 'conditioning'. It doesn't make it right but it makes it inevitable.
Yes I discrimate, not so much the age thing, but the blatant disregard of other people's sensitivities. So we live in a judgemental, discriminatory society, take it or leave it.
Maybe I'm just getting old.
Sori my response is dah basi... in the mood to eat blind salary today...
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